#twisted

Tickets pending review: https://tm.tl/#8082, #8203, #8191, #8244, #8256

anyone have any ideas about this? https://gist.github.com/dpnova/4fb69bd0561736a3...

is it ... an exception in a Failure __init__ or something? (don't really know what __instancecheck__ does though)

meejah, yeah it must be something about stack parsing

maybe a circular ref in repr's or something..

https://gist.github.com/dpnova/cb3bff30375e68f1... must be

anyone using AMP on top of ZeroMQ? e.g. on top of txZMQ?

in theory you could use use the AMP encoding for zmq messages. but zmq already implements message framing for you, so you have two redundant layers of framing...

are they really redundant?

or maybe amp could support zmq framing

hawkowl, https://github.com/twisted/twisted/commit/ac9c5... this change is making things quite unhappy

looks like all urls are being encoded to ascii?

dpn`-: yes

because a url should be ascii

this is news to me

glyph: ^

we had this whole discussion when URI came about

hosts should be ascii (idna)

but afaik the path and query etc have no such restrictions

they should be url escaped

dpn`-: I think they would be redundant... zmq is message-based hence it must implement a framing protocol on top of whichever byte-stream transport you utilize. AMP implements it's own message (box) framing...

that could well be true - i'd have to look at rfc's to verify

dpn`-: not that it would actually matter at all in practice, but im considering doing a version of AMP specifically for use on top of an already-framed "transport" like zmq, or perhaps something very very similiar to AMP but done with msgpack (MAMP?)

(MPAMP?)

i've seen zerorpc and it's basically a stupid version of AMP

03hawkowl 10r4709914 trunk 05A(8253.removal) 06D(msn_example.py msn.py test_msn.py) 07M(index.rst __init__.py README): Merge rip-in-pepperoni-msn-8253: Remove MSN (twisted.words.protocols.msn) ...

hawkowl closed <https://tm.tl/#8253>; - Remove twisted.words.protocols.msn

exactly how stupid (or how awesome in for certain uses) I'm not sure yet...

I need an RPC thing on top of zmq that has AS3, JS and Python clients...

I know AMP already has AS3 and JS implementations of various quality and level of completeness... zerorpc lacks any existing AS3 code afaik, not sure about JS yet.

yeah I'd end up doing whatever each native queue engine uses for RPC tbh

surely AS3 could just use json?

teratorn: you could use wamp :D

that's the problem.. zmq doesn't provide any RPC

it's just framed sockets of various shapes/sizes

(wamp over raw sockets is a thing too)

supporting various topologies and messaging patterns

I would prefer something with an efficient binary encoding...

wamp has msgpack :D

I don't know much about WAMP at this point in time.

to me it sounds like the redundancy is actually something you could easily wear until performance becomes an issue?

disclosure: i kinda work on it

but it's kinda cool

then you would have justification for digging further

and it supports js and twisted and asyncio and cpp and there's .net clients and stuff

dpn`-: well performance *is* an issue which is why I'm replacing our really crapping ad-hoc AMF-based remoting stuff.

but yes, double framing is probably the least of my performance concerns.

so hawkowl as a matter of interest pre #7407 was everything forced to ascii?

dpn`-: i think fromBytes throws a fit if its not ascii

URI.fromBytes

teratorn, we use rabbit over zmq because of stuff like this :P

dpn`-: pre-that it wasnt forced but it shouldnt have worked

teratorn, but we care about validity more than performance

hawkowl, ok noted. these _are_ scraped urls, so we should probably stop being so lazy

dpn`-: i can give you a thingy

hang on

thingy's are shiny

thingies?

gah.

dpn`-: if you can make it unicode, then URL will encode it to bytes for you

otherwise you will have to use urlescape or something

from the stdlib

dpn`-: " The other is the older, US-ASCII-only representation, which is necessary for most contexts where you would need to put a URI."

dpn`-: rabbit is kind of shitty

so yes, any random-ass bytes (or random ass-bytes for that matter) do not belong in a URI

like, there is zero doc or support for actually running it standalone/portable as a non-root user

it really really wan't to be installed system-wide as root

i wanted to use celery with rabbitmq but it turned in to a huge pain

teratorn, yeah it's certainly not the happiest place it could be

hawkowl: does wamp have an AS3 client?

hawkowl, legend, thanks

plus we have to ship a bundled pre-built erlang on every platform we ever support, currenlty the big 3

teratorn: as3 being... actionscript?

hawkowl: correct

teratorn: does... does as3 even support the network

i am now scared

but linux is like one million platforms when you start talking about shipping pre-built binaries

it's flash, sure

teratorn: if it's sufficiently ecma-y, then, i guess autobahnjs will work

flex/flash

right?

or am i underestimating it

it's a decent enough language for what it is

hawkowl, wow this literally just allowed us to scratch a few tickets (mostly related to idna and other fun topics)

hawkowl: I'm not sure how anything JS works on AS3...

teratorn: :(

but uh, I guess we *can* use JS in the browser alongside our AS/Flex application

teratorn: http://wamp-proto.org/implementations/ doesn't list it

im not sure how you talk from AS to JS

oh huh. there's an erlang wamp client now

i'm not sure the pointy-haired boss would approve

or if I would even want it... these protocols are not so complicated that I can't implement them in under a day in AS3

teratorn: tell him there's an RFC

:P

(approve of having AS3 call our network code in JS, when our network code is already in AS3)

teratorn: well the only benefit you get for picking up something like wamp is that then you get crossbar.io or something as your router which sits there and routes your crap to whatever you want

teratorn: wamp is mostly some dicts serialised down to json or msgpack

w/ well defined rpc and pubsub

plz tell me you're not trying to sell me cloud

teratorn: DID YOU KNOW WE HAVE A CLOUD TOO

teratorn: lol no

teratorn: cb is FOSS

this is a desktop app

wait what's it connecting to

that just happens to use web crap

and is distributed in nature

teratorn: oh obviously you need a blockchain

ie certain processing happens in different processes, perhaps on the same computer, perhaps not

teratorn: ah yeah, just json some things down a wire then

or msgpack if msgpack has an es3 impl?

msgpack is really nice

it does, AS3

as3, right

yeah, msgpack is great

well msgpack isn't an RPC and neither is JSON

i need a protocol for RPC on top of the encoding

oh well. hm

yeah we should do a JSON encoding of AMP

an official one

hence the debate over AMP vs zerorpc vs whatever you guys tell me about in the next 5 minutes before I start thor dropping noobs

glyph: did you know

glyph: and a msgpack one!

teratorn: I think lvh might have odne one

glyph: msgpack on cpython is slower than json on pypy

glyph: good to know if true!

hawkowl: not surprising

so if you're cpu bound (which in our testing, crossbar is, because it's routing stuff and doing checks and things), makes a difference

pypy is hilariously fast

we're mostly cpu bound I believe.

any heavy data can go in files on a shared filesystem.

teratorn: call up alex_gaynor, get pypy targeting as3

#speed

haha