#tlsnotary-chat

http://bitcoinist.net/monetas-the-worlds-most-a... i can't really get through the wall of marketing buzzwords, anybody knows what really happened?

oakpacific, it doesn't need billions of dollars to move btc to 10K. One dollar is enough :)

waxwing: the legendary platinum one?

price is a matter of perception, not volume.

all the asks can disappear in a second :)

in RL what's more likely to happen is dollar suddenly plunges by 97%

Kinda silly, no. Yes those problems are NP-hard but you don't actually have to solve them.

waxwing: he said it in the end

pfft, you think i read all the way to the end ? :)

moo-_-, oakpacific , dansmith_btc are you around?

i am

i suddenly realised as i'm editing the diagram, i don't think we should have the arrow to the left with 'server mac key' on the auditor line

it's this whole thing of trying to explain, although each side has half the starting secret, it's not true that we split the actual ssl keys. auditor has nothing, right.

damn, it's hard to draw this in a way which is both simple and correct...

this diagram is just a simplification/approximation of the process, it was not intended to be describing the process correctly. I will ACK anything that you wanna throw at it including colored arrows.

right dansmith_btc . but, what bothers me is when the diagram can be unambiguously interpreted to mean something which would make the protocol completely unsound.

for example, in the absence of arrows showing the commitment, the auditee could fake the traffic.

and in the case of the auditor possessing the server mac key, the auditor could fake the traffic (would be hard, but still)

but fine, i'll just get on with it and try to thread the needle between simple and correct.

in that case just add any extra boxes you feel like adding. We will still thank moo-_- for the initial drawing. If you feel that simplification would lead to unsoundness then add as much extra stuff as needed to make it look sound.

I would be more than happy if anyone conducts a thorough enough review that he raises such questions

waxwing: ping

a little bit of turmoil and noise helps with the publicity

no, sorry i can't agree. put yourself in their position. the *first* thing you do with your limited time is look at the protocol diagram to gauge its soundness. if there's a massive hole in it, it's going to turn them off.

moo-_-, pong, obviously :)

waxwing: i don't think anyone who could see that hole will make a knee-jerk response tbh

especially when we make it clear that this is for j6p consumption

other than that maybe the status of the white paper should be promoted to a similar level

i suggest

rather than trying to figure out what we should put in the diagram

let's first figure out what we shouldn't

i have another idea, but it's a bit more complex

let's say, we paint the textboxes in different colors, in levels of significance

oh so dansmith_btc , now i've finished my edits, squashed my commits, and the last step of step 2 is 'git push origin master', so i'm actually going to merge. i was more thinking of how i could edit the PR, and then keep it as an open PR. This is what i was confused about; presumably that is, indeed, impossible.

oakpacific, i'm going to upload a version in a minute. there's nothing saying it can't change again.

https://tlsnotary.org/smf/index.php?topic=4.0 dansmith_btc waxwing moo-_-

moo-_-, i edited the image link to png from svg, svg doesn't work

oakpacific, now our page looks 10% as cool as orisi's :)

waxwing: where it didn't work?

waxwing: it works on github, as github should convert it in-fly to .png if necessary

moo-_-, ah really? i meant on github. is it perhaps a problem with my environment?

so you're saying you can just leave it as a .svg link and it reads the corresponding png?

waxwing: or dynamically rasters github-friendly bitmap in-fly

waxwing: actually I didn't know about this when started working

better to have everything in .svg - welcome to the future! :)

so what about other people, if you load it here: https://github.com/tlsnotary/tlsnotary/tree/4a7... - do you see the diagram?

because i don't

ah

actually I don't

hmm what the frack

it worked last week

even in my own repo https://github.com/miohtama/tlsnotary

it has gone missing

waxwing: make it PNG

I'll resolve what has happened with github

i remember it didn't work for me when i tried it some months ago

i pointed it at the png, moo-_-

waxwing: does it work with ?raw=true http://stackoverflow.com/a/13063862/315168

waxwing: aaand found the answer

oh i c. well done.

the png is legible enough up to very large sizes it seems.

are you familiar with bitquick? http://bitcoinmagazine.com/17685/bitquicks-new-...

egads, a user!? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173220....

moo-_-, heard of them. that's about it.

moo-_-, that article is a pure advert.

bbl

waxwing: well, bitcoin press generally does not hold journalist ethics in high standard

waxwing: must be reflecting the community itself :P

why suddenly so many Monetas posts?

what are they trying to do?

matt green tweet: "CurrentC achieves a payment card industry milestone. Breached even before they actually launched." lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2kkk5... it does seem like nobody understands what i am trying to say here

oakpacific, "posted by Cesar" - is that a clever pun? :)

waxwing: lol just noticed

oakpacific, you just hit one of those regular reddit pockets of idiocy

had something like Alipay available in the West, Bitcoin would seem way less superior

maybe from some perspectives, but not mine. bitcoin is not ease of payment. it's freedom of payment/transfer, big difference.

yeah what did you tell me last time? "you are special" or "you are unique"? :)

i don't think i'm unique on that score.

i seem to be in the minority on some other things. i forget what now :)

i think at least 80% of the people out there trust CC, all of whose lives I consider to be kept going by self-denial :)

you don't even need cryptographic signature to make it so easy for the thieves, you know

every merchant accepts you payment can access all your CC equivalent of private keys, this is astonishingly archaic

even more archaic than online-banking with SSL 2.0

you're preaching to the choir :)

waxwing: well if the people valuing ease of payment way over freedom of payment is not the majority i can't understand why such a system is kept in place for so long

who said it wasn't the majority? i just said i'm not unique, i didn't say i'm not in the minority

also over anything else

i mean it's pretty obvious where the majority lies there

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2kowq... p2sh/multisig is probably the biggest progress this year

Yet Another Idea re: diagram. Use a different colour for those ~ 4 boxes which are different to normal TLS. Then it's easier to see how tlsnotary embeds into a normal TLS session.

massive wishful thinking, but nevertheless interesting tidbit: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments...

waxwing: ack

you mean for the colours?

waxwing: yes

yeah, it seems obvious in retrospect eh. on the other hand, there's probably several other visual aids we could add (in the spirit of the little man icons for auditor/auditee, and in the spirit of the cloudflare diagram)

only danger is it gets completely overwhelming at some point, i suppose.

perception: "overwhelming=high quality project"

i sometimes want to yell when i see politicians throwing words together to create phrases with contradictory meanings

wasn't it just yesterday when we discussed bank secrecy act which is supposed to be about AML/KYC on your customers

now it's about keeping the confidentialities of customers accounts wtf

oakpacific, yes. there is another concept of 'bank secrecy' historically in europe though.

the 'societe anonyme' tradition in switzerland and luxembourg.

you've probably heard of it right. for example 'numbered bank accounts'.

meaning accounts only owned by a number, no personal identity attached.

switzerland has been pressured by the US in the last decade or so to more or less remove this. well, don't know the details, but it's been heavily attacked.

there is a well worn tradition of german businessmen stacking the back of their BMWs with deutschmarks/euros and going on a little 'vacation' to Luxembourg :)

in any case it will be no more in the looming cashless utopia

waxwing: it has come to the point U.S. people don't get bank accounts in Switzerland banks

and the existing account holders are kicked out

'there was a recent news

moo-_-, right. it is very bad for US expats.

that's kind of a slightly different issue. but related.

congrats on the USG for finally finding a way to circumvent the constitutional protection of their people after 200 years of trying

are we vulnerable to anything here? https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Top_10_2013-Top_10

i can't see anything (obviously mostly because it doesn't apply), but maybe i'm not imaginative enough

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=789961.0 wonder if we can market it better if we create an altcoin for tlsnotary :)

your coin is totally reliable if you use comic sans

belcher: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173220....

thank fuck someone finally tried it

what can i say, networking and campaigning works

posting on reddit and everywhere

right, 1 is better than 0 :)

if you want me to upvote or bump anything, im always happy to

not counting those who are already members of the guards ;)

i dont really know what else i can do to help

i found you guys through reading forums anyway : )

waxwing at least

belcher: yeah tks those are some really good works :) mailed justcoin yesterday anyway

so my mother was like "you are near and have no girlfriend, I know this girl in London maybe you want to get in contact", then I knew that she worked in an investment bank

and i was like ಠ_ಠ

s/near/near 30

im aiming for a finance job after i write up