#selenium

eindoofus: but in a nutshell - put stuff in dashboardpage that is common to both the widget and the page

but we have no way of knowing until we build/run stuff

because it's hidden away by mvn

simonstewart: i tried but at the time it wasn't working for me and all the people i asked didn't know how to :)

alko: keep me posted on that

mhall_work: will do

sounds good. thanks

My beef with maven is manifold. Other than the fact that it doesn't solve the dependencies issue (it just makes it feel that way), the code layout is unpleasant, the tool itself is slow, doesn't parallelise well and doesn't provide repeatable builds

eindoofus: say you have a "home" button, you keep that in the dashboardpage as you might wanna press it from the widget

ahhhh

maven saved us from badly written ant scripts

think i know what i need to do now

and simonstewart covers all the specifics well

at the moment i'm on vacatin in sunny southern california and will head to the beach shortly though, but i'm waiting here to read the beef with maven first :D

simonstewart: doesnt provide repeatable builds?

But my ant scripts weren't badly written in the first place

Nope

er..

maybe your maven poms/scripts were badly written? :)

You can execute the same build, but the output may be different

yeah, please elaborate on that one?

never had that issue

You've never noticed that issue

but at least we can agree that maven is better than ant

I don't believe it is

wut

and ant is better than having nothing at all :)

ah ok

simon, come on man

ant isn't too bad

Ant is definitely better than nothing at all

i didn't know anyone still used ant :D

It's not BAD, but dang

there's better options, but it's ok

alko: the main app here is built with ant. across like, 20 build.xml's

multi-module builds in maven are appallingly painful

I disagree!

And there's _so much boilerplate_

Only as much as you want to include!

At least with ant it's easy to carve out a few packages into a new library

With maven, you end up needing a new project layout, with duplicated directory structures

Ugh

or just a profile build

And the whole fucking thing is totally opaque

When we moved selenium off maven, I had a maven committer try and help me figure out how to build RC

there's a core lifecycle. It's predictable and known

It took us days

lmao

that's fair

That's what I mean by "opaque"

And maven doesn't support multiple languages

Maven is not a freeform tool. your product has to be compliant in form and approach

MonkeysPaw: Where do you usually put the wait?

and in that regard, it's not super for this situation, I'll give you that.

mhall_work: nothing I work on fits into that form or approach

Other than toy projects, I've not seen anything that fits into it without forcing things

I mean, you _can_ get builds of complex apps working with it, but it's No Joy

And I totally get that. But for me, for the webapps that I work on, it's an ideal solution. Single hosting environment, single language, etc.

mhall_work: then I'm happy for you :)

once you have more than one level of nested modules, it makes you want to glass the office over

Oh, and it's so slow

lmao

So, yeah. That's what I think :)

It's quick if you call your phases explicitly, if you let it run through the whole lifecycle each time then yea

simonstewart: thank you for that

On the same note, alot of folks like gradle, which I abhor.

By design a no-op build in maven is going to slower than in something like buck

it seems we have started some discussion here :)

and I have no idea what buck is

another build system

i was a maven user for many years before i became a pom writer, and it was a life saver

i read that as porn writer

>_>

good money in both industries

prolly comperable, tbh

alko: buck is my current day job: https://facebook.github.io/buck/

lol

No porn here

simon: ty for the reading material

Almost definitely no porn here

okay sometimes porn

:)

now i am pretty facile with the pom files, and while they are a headache sometimes and lots of boiler plate i do some cool stuff with maven and jenkins for automation

simonstewart: cool thanks, i take a look at that

and if anyone wants to break into porn, i do believe the san fernando valley up the street here is the place to be for that ;)

alko: a lot of the stuff I do and work on is described in this video: https://developers.facebooklive.com/videos/561

(or the teams that I work closely with are working on that stuff)

cool

i am guessing you work for facebook then :)

in the other california :P

In London

lukeis: can you fix up the workspace on ci?

simonstewardijustgoogledyougetmeajobplsillworkhardandmakeyouproud

lol

steward?

ah ok

fml I'm a terrible qa

hahahaha

i used to work in london myself a bit, but canary wharf was so awful and crossing the channel so inconvenient i haven't for a while :)

i work in london

i may be working in amsterdam this summer though.

ooh ive worked there too

its nice

who for alko?

When I find out about them, I head to the Selenium London meetups

canary wharf is the Wall St. of London right?

uh

not really

it's not a financial center?

it has some banks there

i wouldnt say it was the wall st of london

then what is?

im not sure there is one

canary wharf is a dodgy area lol

the isle of dogs :D

mhm

i lived there

is that next to the isle of man?

now i live in whitechapel

canary wharf is where most of the big american banks are

and some of the british ones

not really an upgrade lol

jimevans: what makes you think i need to do something to ci? http://ci.seleniumhq.org:8080/job/Build%20All%2...

i dislike london in general

the city of london (the ROMAN city of london) is probably the wall street of london

+1 whereismyspoon :)

good lawd london is expensive

mayfair / st james are where most of the hedge funds / private equity are

gabecase: yep lol

i dont want to go to london! (or Chelsea)

i do enjoy green park, st james park, hyde park

dude-x: nobody wants to go to chelsea

but for daily work i prefer amsterdam