fortheswarm: I think the long and short answer to your question is more in the range of "yes, people know profile manager, no they don't know that much about profile manager"
in terms of your app questions, on most MDMs, it has been my experience that just deleting the app from the group/policy that sends it out via VPP does not remove it from the device.
fortheswarm
hah, i'm trying to troubleshoot this issue i'm having (can't get an app to update) - we had to remove it manually for it to update :|
dknuth
but rather, you have to seti t up to remove it, or use a remove command on a managed app to remove it.
fortheswarm
but according to apple it's not doing what it's suppose to be doing
HeliNomad has quit
ahh ok
chilcote has quit
dknuth
the idea is that if an app is pushed out to a device, then just because I unassign the app to a policy group, that doesn't mean that I want to take it away from the users
and apple's stance is that unless directed to come off, they want the user to keep the apps, on the idea that the user will use them, and want more apps, buy more in the app store, then buy an iPad
as far as not updating your app, my guess, and this is only a guess mind you, is that for whatever mechanism that is comparing the app on the system with the app you're pushing, the app doesn't appear to be different.
fortheswarm
Remove an app from a device: Click the Remove button next to an app. The app and all of its data will be removed from the device. You can only remove apps you've previously added to the device using Profile Manager.
possibly
dknuth
so, if it's evaluating the app, it may not see the new version as actually a new version
how does it know is it the build number or the version number? and waht's the difference between the two?
we incremented both build and version numbers and nothing
dknuth
to be fair, Profile Manager : MDMs :: a splint and paracord : a cast
fortheswarm: honestly, I don't know what mechanism iOS and PM use to determine app version changes
I mean, you could use Xcode and pull the logs off the device to see if there's anything in there about why it's not getting the new version
you could also use Console.app to look at PM's logs to see if it's crapping out anything
but I don't know
fortheswarm
oh well, i guess i'll have my client move on to something else, for some reason I feel attached to it because i've used it for so long (even in my own environment) for basic things
dknuth
sure, and for *basic* things, Profile Manager is fine.
it's just not really designed to be a fully scalable MDM.
in the same way that OS X w/ Server.app is not really designed to be a fully scalable server.
also, MDM and iOS management as a whole is...painful.
Apple doesn't like to let people play with their toys.
fortheswarm
hah
have you used casper for MDM?
do you have full control? (for basic stuff like this)?
dknuth
I have used it a couple of times. To be fair, i work for Absolute Software, so I tend to bias towards Absolute's MDM not Casper.
:)
fortheswarm
ahh ok
dknuth
but
MDM is a closed box, basically.
there is no such thing as "full control" on iOS.
in Absolute, with in-house apps (apps that I sign using a developer account), I can push the app and issue commands to remove the app.
and I can update the .ipa file when I change versions, etc. and depending on how the app increments to see that it's a new version, I can push that.
behind the scenes, the MDM is never talking directly to the iOS device.
The MDM is talking to apple's push notification server, which is telling the device to do things like check in, submit inventory, etc.
fortheswarm
i'll give my client these options, if they choose something like absoulte/casper tehn it means i won't have to support it
ahh i see
i never knew that...
dknuth
pushing self-signed apps basically sends a command to APNS, which tells the device to talk to the MDM, which then responds to the checkin/request for the app and pushes it if appropriate.
it's the simplest form of pushing apps since you are responding to the device's request for the app, which you told it to issue by telling the APNS to tell the device to reach out to the MDM to get the app.
App Store apps are another level of pain, since in that case, you have even less control.
and you have more black boxes in the mix.
fortheswarm
lol
dknuth
for example, for apps that you just want to have users get from the store without VPP and managed app distribution, I can't push the app itself at all.
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I have to either issue a command that tells the APNS to tell the device to display a message to the user telling them the MDM admin wants to have them install an app, and then takes the user into the App store where the user accepts the app, accepts the license agreement, and downloads the app.
fortheswarm
ahh ok
dknuth
(and that app comes down as a non-managed app, same as any other purchased app the user bought themselves. Meaning, i can't use any commands to remove the app from the device)