#hoplon

+1 on :exclusions michaniskin !! I haven't sat down and tried to write a boot script to manage aws stuff (last time I used amazonica, when I was using leiningen I had to do some exclusions in my project setup)

michaniskin: With your latest commit, is boot still looking for a -main function when running a script?

danielszmulewicz: yes, everything is the same except no more need for the .boot extension

michaniskin: Cool.

you can still make a script that doesn't have a -main

it still evaluates all the expressions in the script

michaniskin: Nice. Have you had a chance to look at https://github.com/danielsz/boot-binstub

michaniskin: ?

danielszmulewicz: it looks awesome, but i haven't had a chance to use it much yet

michaniskin: No problem. It's very premilinary, but if you and alandipert like it, make it yours.

i hope to get started with using it this weekend

thanks!

Sure.

People, this is the third time this happens to me this week. I see a React extension that could be useful in my Clojurescript project, and then it appears to be a npm module. https://github.com/jed/react-swipe

What am I to do?

boot-npm could be a thing... :)

michaniskin: yeah, bring it on...

:-)

haha

martinklepsch: Have you tackled this before?

I ran into some...issues trying to use react components that seemed to only exist as npm modules - IMHO the interchange format for such things should be javascript (or JSX at least) :P

jjmojojjmojo: I don't even understand why they ship React extensions as npm modules. Is this because they use browerify?

*shrug* I think they just assume that if you're doing react you're doing server-side rendering and you're only doing that with node

jjmojojjmojo: Ah, what did you end up doing?

nothing yet :) I think I'm going to re-engineer the project to use hoplon from the ground up

but I kind of really want to see react work in a simple, straight forward way with clojure

(er... react components I mean)

because there *is* reagent, but I dunno if wiring that up with server-side js running inside the JVM via clojure is better than just using hoplon

which doesn't solve the component issue entirely, but could be path in that direction

jjmojojjmojo: I wouldn't mind switching to hoplon. The problem is that I'm trying to do mobile client-side applications. It's very difficult to get touch events and swiping right.

Stuff like thaT.

*nod* yeah I haven't delved into that world yet - I'm coming back into "serious" web development from a brief hiatus as a "devops" engineer

I missed a lot of huge developments in the past 3 or 4 years

the state of the art for "mobile" before I changed focus was reactive CSS :)

Yeah, situation has improved somewhat, and things like cordova help a lot, but the last mile is still a steep climb.

is phonegap still a viable option?

cordova is the open-source equivalent of phonegap, and they build options. You write html, and cordova will package it up in a compliant web container that runs on ios and android. It's completely automated.

I meant to say that cordova solves building your app for android and ios in a convenient way.

It automates the build process

Besides that, it gives you APIs you can use uniformly.

But you're still on your own with regards to layout and motion detection.

That is what I would call the last mile.

Layout can be solved elegantly with flexbox.

So flexbox is something you would need to master.

For managing touch events there is a wealth of third party libraries, and React extensions have been made wrapping them. But they are packaged as npm modules, and I'm pulling my hair trying to integrate them in my Om application.

danielszmulewicz: those 3pl could probably also be packaged up quite nicely as hoplon components.

have you seen alandipert: 's awesome blog post about wiring up some cool js guages for an adzerk thingy? not a mobile app but no reason why it couldn't be in a cordova/phonegap/trigger.io environment

michaniskin: has some good experience at that with the hostelrocket app

raywillig: you have a link?

raywillig: thanks

hmm this link from that blog post is broken: https://github.com/tailrecursion/hoplon/tree/ma...

BTW, has anyone attempted to write a mobile application in hoplon?

danielszmulewicz: yes

hostelrocket was via trigger.io

and some others

michaniskin: Can I download it and try it on my device?

danielszmulewicz: i think so, it's in the app store

michaniskin: Installing now. Who's behind it?

danielszmulewicz: how do you mean?

michaniskin: Who wrote the app?

me and two other guys

donmullen_ was the boss of the project

that's in your pre-adzerk days?

yes this was last year

michaniskin: Awesome. Did you use a framework like cordova?

trigger.io

same codebase for desktop, mobile web, and mobile native

michaniskin: sounds promising. You recommend it?

yeah it worked great for me

it's not free though

danielszmulewicz: i would imagine you could achieve similar with cordova. perhaps with boot-cordova in your pipeline

Hi. Are "advanced" URLs like /some/address/to/page/123 possible in Hoplon?

crazydiamond: i'd recommend using uri fragments

michaniskin, thanks, I'll check it out

you know, like http://example.com/foo/#/some/fancy/page/123

ah

and... how about pushState + AJAX etc?

you can do it, but pushState is terrible

but of course it's possible

I remember I was struggling with that back button wiredness once

pushState is just not well concieved

it's extremely naive

the uri fragment method was engineered sanely

i.e., naive in terms of browser support?

no, in terms of understanding the HTTP model

it's a hack to support something that was already supported

but the people involved never took the time to learn how it worked

well i'm speculating there

but it's terrible

like imagine a caching proxy somewhere between the client and server

with pushState you have 100 urls that all serve the same content

so your cache is always thrashing

but caching aside

when you use pushState you need to now involve the server in everything

routes

all this nonsense

ah, that thing

when i make a web app the URL is like a maven coordinate

i.e. I would always miss the cache?

it's the unique coordinates for the application

so http://example.com/foo/ is the coordinates of the program that is downloaded

when you have http://example.com/foo/#/bar/baz/

the #/bar/baz/ part is the client state

the server doesn't care about it

this means you can deploy your html and js to a cdn

and, data/API endpoints to the server?

those are a completely separate thing

they're not related to the UI in any way

the UI talks to them as any API consumer would

via HTTP requests or whatever

and, by program you mean that HTML/CSS/JS (very natural combination), i.e. the UI

yes

that is consuming the API

with hoplon it's a program that runs on the client

the HTML is just a shim to get the js loaded

basically with hoplon the UI is a js program

in order to make it possible to download and run the program in the client we make a HTML page too

but the HTML doesn't contain any content or anything

once the program is running it can make requests to HTTP endpoints

but those endpoints are completely separate from the UI

I can have only some abstraction that is common for how UI works and backend works (e.g. sth like "rules of validation of text inputs with integers")

hoplon is ideally suited for that, because everything that is in the UI gets there via maven dependencies and :require

so you put that kind of thing in libraries

just like any other program

yep, but in Clojure I see my components much more "reusable"

why?

(w/o quotes)