#gratipay

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      • whit537
        That's beside the point.
      • pjz
        or 3) you somehow kick me out of teh group
      • whit537
        Well, 3 is easy. :)
      • pjz
        sure
      • whit537
        pjz: What do you want?
      • pjz
        whit537: a take mechanism where the group decides what's fair instead of an individual.
      • bruceadams
        pjz: that's a hard problem
      • whit537
        pjz: You are experiencing that mechanism right now. :-)
      • bruceadams
        it puts the group in the position of having to judge each individual.
      • whit537
        pjz: You're taking an unfair amount. Please lower it.
      • pjz
        whit537: done! I set it to 0.01
      • bruceadams: does it? what about summing up individual judements somehow?
      • whit537
        pjz: That's an unfair amount. :-)
      • bruceadams
        we have some experience with how well that works in typical companies (which is to say: it has little to do with value)
      • whit537
        pjz: Setting your take to $0.01 feels to me like pouting.
      • :-)
      • bruceadams
        (i can pout with the best of them :-) )
      • clone1018
        Is he not allowed to pout :p?
      • whit537
        Hmmm … I guess he's *allowed* to pout. Doesn't seem ideal, though. :-)
      • pjz
        whit537: so you can tell me what's unfair but not wht's fair?
      • (sorry, lagged out)
      • clone1018
        whit537: I'd guess he's upset for you shaming him :p
      • pjz
        seriously, I don't *know* what's fair
      • bruceadams
        pjz: for what it's worth, i was uncomfortable with the "set your own take" approach when it was first being discussed.
      • whit537
        pjz: Silence == consent.
      • pjz
        whit537: well no one complained when I set my take to $40.00, so it must have been okay, then?
      • bruceadams
        i've largely come around to seeing it as good. and bold and unique and a little hard to get my head around and decide what I should take.
      • whit537
        pjz: I complained, didn't I?
      • :)
      • pjz
        also, "what's fair" depends on how much te group is making, right?
      • whit537: sure, after the fact
      • whit537
        Also true.
      • pjz: I didn't notice before the fact.
      • bruceadams
        yes, "what's fair" does depend on group income.
      • pjz
        whit537: silence == consent
      • whit537: also, I don't think I was silent on the 'set your own' 'kids eat first' thing
      • whit537
        pjz: Sure man, I'm not asking you to return the money you took.
      • pjz: Right. I recognize that you don't like kids eat first.
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      • pjz
        bruceadams: but there's no way to express a take in terms of that
      • clone1018
        I don't see why pjz is taking too much btw, since the "gittip" group encapsulates Aspen too, which he works on regularly
      • pjz
        clone1018: well, there's now an Aspen group, btw
      • clone1018
        Oh.
      • pjz
        clone1018: but it's still only a few weeks old so the doubling limit is still in effect
      • clone1018
        Enjoy your 0.39/week then :p
      • pjz
        right :)
      • whit537
        clone1018: Gittip is giving Aspen $5/wk, but that doesn't show up because no cc.
      • (It's ticketed somewhere.)
      • clone1018
        whit537: That ticket is becoming more and more important :p
      • that and showing how much you get from groups in your total
      • whit537
        Mmm-hmm.
      • clone1018
        Does that fit under the current focus?
      • whit537
        clone1018: No.
      • clone1018
        Alright
      • whit537
        That'd be user-facing, no?
      • pjz
        so I guess I should write the client bits to do the calculations that will make it more 'fair'
      • clone1018
        Probably
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      • pjz
        what's 'fair' mean?
      • lbah
      • whit537
        pjz: Fair is an emergent property, not an a priori one.
      • Fair is the balance of people's resentments.
      • As communicated via two things:
      • 1) dollars taken
      • 2) work done
      • EOF
      • pjz: The way I use takes as a manager is that take implies willingness to work.
      • clone1018
        I'd base my "take" on my commit count
      • for that month
      • whit537
        So if you're taking 20% of the money, that's fine as long as it "feels" like you're doing roughly 20% of the work.
      • pjz
        commit count? not delta-loc count?
      • whit537
        Extenuating circumstances come into play as well.
      • pjz: Nope. Not quantifiable.
      • pjz: Extenuating circumstances: Kim's circumstances are more modest than yours or mine. Therefore I don't mind if she takes a bit more relative to her input.
      • pjz
        whit537: no, I know ; I wa more poking fun at the idea that 'commits' were anything other than an arbitrary metric.
      • whit537
        pjz: Basically, if you're taking 20%, you damn well better do the hooks and testing refactors on Aspen instead of bugging me to do them. ;-)
      • clone1018
        Gittip Group != Aspen group though
      • pjz
        right
      • clone1018
        pjz: has 0 commits in the past month to aspen
      • whit537
        (pjz: Ah, I see. Didn't notice that clone1018 introduced commit count.)
      • clone1018
        It's the metric I would base my take on
      • Not saying it's a good one :p
      • whit537
        pjz: You should set your take to balance your own resentment.
      • Well, resentment vs. guilt.
      • pjz
        heh
      • whit537
        Everyone should set their take to balance their internal resentment and guilt.
      • The art of internal compromise. :-)
      • clone1018
        until you tell them to change it whit537?
      • pjz
        clone1018: well, then they just have to explain themselves
      • clone1018
        ah
      • whit537
        clone1018: Over in #aspen at the start of the conversation ...
      • pjz
        clone1018: which is all whit537 really asked me to do
      • whit537
        Exactly.
      • clone1018
        cool, nevermind then :p
      • whit537
        I lead with, "What's your thought process here?"
      • (That's the past tense, btw.)
      • s/lead/led
      • pjz
        so one problem is, like I said, that 'fair' depends on group income and there's no way to express that as a take
      • whit537
        pjz: If you want to update your client to calculate a percentage, that's fine.
      • pjz
        I'd be okay setting my take to like 1% and leaving it there
      • whit537
        pjz: I think that's doable with current APIs, no?
      • pjz
        uhh...I think so... incoming $ are public, right? so should be.
      • whit537
        pjz: You have receiving there, no?
      • pjz
        sure, and I can do that, no problem. But there's an argument that I'm unusual in being able to do so... other people won't have it so easy and so might either over-take or under-take.
      • whit537
        I could see expressing takes as a percentage instead of absolute.
      • Do we have a ticket for that yet?
      • pjz: ^^^
      • zwn
        I don't think so.
      • whit537
        pjz: Didn't you make a ticket already?
      • pjz
        don't think so
      • whit537: there you go gh1609
      • [o__o]
        Allow team takes to be specified in percentage not just $.: https://github.com/gittip/www.gittip.com/issues...
      • whit537
        !m pjz
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, pjz!
      • whit537
        Awesome, thank you. :-)
      • sigmavirus24 has left the channel
      • You *just* beat me to it. :-P
      • matin joined the channel
      • Okay!
      • pjz: We cool? :-)
      • !m pjz
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, pjz!
      • whit537
        !m pjz
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, pjz!
      • whit537
        !m pjz
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, pjz!
      • whit537
        !m wyze|work
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, wyze|work!
      • whit537
        !m wyze|work
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, wyze|work!
      • whit537
        !m wyze|work
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, wyze|work!
      • pjz
        whit537: I'm good. I still think setting your own take is a bad idea, but a percentage means at least I won't inadvertenly do something unfair again.
      • whit537
        wyze|work: Thanks for updating your take. :-)
      • pjz: Cool. Thank you. :-)
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      • I fucking love this … thing. Group. Job. Group of people. You. Yinz.
      • !m [o__o]
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, [o__o]!
      • whit537
        !m AmarSahinovic
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, AmarSahinovic!
      • whit537
        !m balpert
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, balpert!
      • whit537
        !m balpert
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, balpert!
      • whit537
        !m bjorn
      • [o__o]
        You're doing good work, bjorn!
      • whit537
        !m BlueShark