#devuan

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      • gnarface
        at least on osx
      • muep
        you can also use e.g. nmap or you can go use the mac and check its ip address with some tool
      • gnarface
        i don't really know what avahi does on linux other than break my connection
      • DusXMT: is it a laptop?
      • DusXMT: i wonder if avahi comes with some laptop packages?
      • muep
        I've never have had it break a connection. but I'd really avoid using a .local domain for anything else because quite many things want to use that for autodetected hostnames
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      • DusXMT
        gnarface: It was a debian chroot actually, it might be that it was removed from the defaults in Devuan
      • muep
        so you can only really use *.local if you can be reasonably sure that users of services are not using apple devices or other things that try to use mdns for resolving *.local names
      • Lydia_K
        Oh yes, that company should not have been using .local, that is generally discouraged
      • muep
        especially companies can usually just pick some names from under some domain that they have anyway
      • Lydia_K
        It's hard to change something like that once it's been implimented and a jillion things at the company now rely on it :p
      • you get stuck with it.
      • muep
        yeah I know, companies say that we will keep doing $SOME_SILLY_THING because that's how it has always been
      • Lydia_K
        Well yeah, there's lots of that "We don't want to change" at every place, but there also the cost factor, making big disruptive changes to any large environment costs a ton of time for engineers, apps people, and lost working time for when things are down and being moved/fixed/whatever, often it's a huge investment of money and sometimes not worth it at all.
      • That company will *never* leave .local as their internal domain suffix, not worth the cost at all.
      • they never should have done it in the first place.. but.. too late now..
      • muep
        yeah some things are difficult to change, but I've also seen e.g. "let's keep writing scripts with #!/bin/sh despite that many don't know what are bash features and what are posix features"
      • Lydia_K shudders
      • Lydia_K
        Oh yes, I agree, that happens often
      • I've been trying to ween my users off csh..
      • some of the csh scripts they have.. thank goodness they are all becoming legacy, but that's still a long road.
      • Changing technology is easy, it's changing the culture around the technology that is difficult.
      • csh scripts that generate csh scripts that generate csh scripts that execute.. *shudders*
      • tdm4
        csh is pretty evil :)
      • muep
        why, by the way? I know csh badly enough that I have to find some cheat sheet whenever I have to interact with it
      • Lydia_K
      • muep
        at least posix shell and bash are full of traps and pitfalls. I have hard time imagining why csh would be worse
      • Lydia_K
        There's lots more like that, those are just some of the two top hits on google.
      • muep
        but maybe should look at it a bit
      • Lydia_K
        There are some serious issues with it, and I've run into a few of the very strange bugs where behavior is totall inconsistant
      • *totally
      • And my users, they are scientists, they do not write the best code, they are not professional programmers by any stretch
      • muep
        and does this also apply to tcsh?
      • Lydia_K
        In my personal experience, yes
      • muep
        which is the only csh-ish shell that I have really interacted with
      • Lydia_K
        debugging these things for them can be maddening.
      • I don't know why grid engine still wants to default to using csh, it's horrible.
      • muep
        does something in posix-like shells make it any better when you deal with software consisting of many layers of scripts calling and sourcing each other?
      • Lydia_K
        It's more about the inconsistency that gets to me, I've had the exact same syntax work in one script, but not another, influenced by the other things happening before/after it
      • makes it incredibly hard to debug when you look at the code and go "Well that's right" except that it's not..
      • but "sometimes" it is right.
      • muep
        I do quite a lot of shell scripting but I usually try to keep it to just one simple script calling other tools. but every now and then I end up debugging these more complex shell constructions and find it pretty maddening too
      • Lydia_K
        I wish I had an example on hand, but I honestly don't.
      • but there have been some times where I've been like "That makes no damn sense. It works sometimes, but not all the time."
      • muep
        at least linux-related communities seem to avoid csh-like shells quite a lot. I don't recall installing csh on my personal systems
      • Lydia_K
        bash, ksh, zsh, never had issues with them like I have with csh
      • muep
        also with my own scripts, I try to limit myself to stuff that works with dash so that I'll have a bit less rope
      • Lydia_K
        Slowly I'll move my users all to bash.
      • gnarface
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      • sysop
        hi did you ssl cert expire? or is something else going on?
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      • Lydia_K
        Nothing else going on, it just expired
      • gnarface
        ignore that blank line i sent, mouse focus issue
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      • ignore that blank line i sent, mouse focus issue
      • (same)
      • Lydia_K
        Having a mouse issue?
      • gnarface
        this game keeps dropping the cursor on the other screen
      • it doesn't seem to like multiple monitors being present, sorry
      • up and enter is bound to up and "a" on the steam controller
      • repeats the last line
      • Lydia_K
        hahaha, what game?
      • gnarface
        talos principle
      • Lydia_K
        Oh cool, I've wanted to play that, it looks interesting.
      • gnarface
        i haven't got far into it
      • i'm still fiddling with the graphics options
      • every time i apply settings and it restarts the engine, that's when the cursor drops
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      • other than that it seems to work well
      • Lydia_K
        Cool :)
      • My life is consumed by Breath of the Wild right now anyway.
      • gnarface
        hah
      • that's a good game
      • Lydia_K
        It's amazing <3
      • gnarface
        you figure out cooking yet?
      • Lydia_K
        Of course!
      • I've put like, a hundred hours into it :p
      • gnarface
        there is a recipe on the wall in one of the stable yurts
      • inside
      • Lydia_K
        All of them have one!
      • gnarface
        really?
      • Lydia_K
        Yeah
      • gnarface
        i suspected as much, i only found the one with egg, butter, cane sugar and rice
      • Lydia_K
        There are so many recipies.. it's crazy
      • I know I've only discovered a fraction of them.
      • golinux
        #debianfork?
      • Lydia_K
        oh sorry.
      • Didn't realize what channel this was.
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      • aitor
        hi again
      • i'm working in the dinamic menu, and looking at the code of openbox-menu
      • AntoFox
        work also mate-menu??
      • aitor
        as the author himself said somewhere: we will not reinvent the wheel
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      • AntoFox: i still didn't download any code from mate
      • but my work can be usefull
      • i'll try to contact with mimas <mimasgpc@free.fr>;
      • He says in the THANKS file:
      • The author of openbox-menu would like to thank:
      • The author of openbox-menu would like to thank:
      • - the authors of Openbox, the great WM
      • - the authors of menucache (LXDE Project)
      • - the people that helped me to give more love to openbox-menu by providing patches, ideas or by finding bugs.
      • this afternoon i began porting it to Gtkmm/C++
      • hee you are a link about howto create applets for a panel (this concrete link is for cinnamon, and i still don't know if it's applicable to other panels like tint2):
      • it's in spanish
      • see you :)
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      • AntoFox
        aitor: uh interesting link !!
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      • tdm4
        there a command I can use that would replace all packages I had installed with debian jessie with devuan's?
      • probably would have to do dpkg, get the list with -debian in them, and do apt-get install --reinstall?
      • fsmithred
        tdm4, are you trying to upgrade from debian to devuan?
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      • Guest43445
        hi did you ssl cert expire? or is something else going on?
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      • Xenguy
        Guest43445: I think there have been some expirations, yes
      • Guest43445
        cool thanks
      • Xenguy
        I think this has to do with the growing pains of shifting infrastructure...