#devuan

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      • crayxmp
        windows
      • vvande
        CP/M
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        \o/
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      • Schallaven
        o/
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      • Xenguy
        \o
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      • vvande
        slow news day on #devuan ?
      • jonadab
        No news is good news, with Gary Gnus?
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      • TheOuterLinux
        Is Devuan really systemd-free or is that just the minimum version?
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      • gnarface
        we should start some sort of statistics tracking
      • on people who leave before getting an answer to the question
      • so we can make a rough average of how many minutes too early they leave
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      • vvande
        Is there an IRC entry point on the web site?
      • We have that for OpenNIC and people ask, wait 1.5 minutes, then log off.
      • Perhaps some of them are not very multi tasking and are the kind that close windows or browsers.
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      • bill-auger
        if you want to catch those people you need to have a clear message in the MOTD
      • vvande
        We have a big red note on the web site explaining the situation. Easy to see, and easy to understand.
      • gnarface
        nobody reads what's there now
      • bill-auger
        "dont ask to as just ask" - "stay and wait for an answer" - etc
      • vvande
        I agee, the MOTD is mostly useless.
      • it also doesn't show well in some clients.
      • bill-auger
        well if they wont read the rules then they dont deserve a response
      • gnarface
        what we need is a greeter bot with the patience and determination of emacs M-x-doctor
      • bill-auger
        so dont worry about it then
      • vvande
        The big red note on the OpenNIC site, didn't seem to make any difference.
      • people are just impatient, and/or ignorant
      • gnarface
        bill-auger: you'll never fix the world by washing your hands of everyone who wasn't born with the patience to read. i think we have a duty to society to at least try to be a positive influence.
      • bill-auger
        there is no other option
      • gnarface
        sure there is, i can think of plenty
      • bill-auger
        if they wont read about how the IRC works then there is no possible way to get that message across
      • gnarface
        i disagree
      • i admit there's no fool-proof, 100% certain way of victory over laziness and stupidity, dont' get me wrong. but what you're suggesting, just ignoring them, IS the only 100%, fool-proof, certain method of guaranteeing failure
      • bill-auger
        going door-to-door like a mormon educating netiquette?
      • gnarface
        you know honestly... just about did that the other day
      • bill-auger
        i did not say ignore them - they dont stay around long enoug to be ignored
      • i said dont worry about it
      • gnarface
        yes, so like i said, right before you said "there's no other option" i suggested a greeter bot
      • so your very statement that there's no other option is already provably false
      • bill-auger
        how is a bot any different than the MOTD
      • gnarface
        the bot can flag them by name directly
      • it causes a UI bell
      • KatolaZ
        bill-auger: people feel better if something shouts at them
      • :)
      • bill-auger
        yes i suppose there is that advantage
      • make is so #1
      • gnarface
        never EVER say there's NO solution just because YOU decided you didn't LIKE any of them
      • KatolaZ
        :)
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      • gnarface
        instead, maybe try to improve upon/ propose a better solution
      • bill-auger
        dood
      • KatolaZ
        BTW, it is true that many people these days are not used to IRC
      • bill-auger
        take it back a bit
      • gnarface
        oh, did i come off mean while trying to be motivational again?
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      • sorry, back to my nintendo i guess
      • bill-auger
        what i meant was that EVERY solution you could possible suggest involves the new users reading something
      • - but if they wont read stuff and only wont the TLDR then there is no other alternative
      • you could buy advertising on TV maybe
      • KatolaZ
        :D
      • bill-auger
        maybe soe youtube videos
      • KatolaZ
        there are many youtube videos on devuan, BTW
      • gnarface
        those are good ideas too actually
      • bill-auger
        "how to not be such a noob 101"
      • KatolaZ
        mainly independent reviews, though
      • gnarface
        but a bot that just flags their name in bright red text that carefully reminds them to be patient, really is cheaper and actually might work as well
      • KatolaZ
        yes gnarface
      • gnarface
        i think it's a fine line for such a bot between being helpful and annoying though
      • some careful thought would have to be put into the conditions under which it decides to activate
      • ..and exactly what it says when it does
      • and like i said
      • it's ok if we can't save everyone
      • but it's not okay if we don't try to save any of them
      • bill-auger
        you sound like this is a new idea - this problem has been around as long as the internet has