#pyladies

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      • anannie
        Why do people use editors such as Vim and emacs as opposed to just using Sublime text or something?
      • pdurbin
        minimalism. ssh friendly
      • nedbat
        anannie: some people started using vim/emacs before Sublime existed
      • anannie
        Right but isn't the entire keyboard thing productivity unfriendly?
      • nedbat
        anannie: i don't understand
      • anannie: some people claim that switching between keyboard and mouse slows them down, and using keyboard only lets them go faster.
      • anannie
        You have to learn all of these commands and so on to do anything in these systems. What's the point?
      • Doesn't that in of itself cause a cognitive load and detract from the real thing i.e. making the code work?
      • nedbat
        anannie: it does add to your cognitive load, yes. They are power tools.
      • anannie: plenty of people are very happy with sublime (or pycharm, or whatever)
      • anannie
        So why do people use them when you can get most if not all of those features through a GUI or some better interface?
      • nedbat
        anannie: maybe they work on machines that don't let them use a GUI sometimes (ssh-friendly)
      • anannie: maybe they like the keyboard-only style
      • anannie: maybe they've been using vim for 10 years, and they see other editors come and go.
      • anannie: before Sublime Text was Textmate. Next is PyCharm, and then that online adobe thing.
      • anannie: and vim remains popular.
      • anannie
        nedbat: (well you can sync the files locally using a SSH based tool...)
      • anannie nods
      • so it's more of a preference thing as opposed to some deep underlying reason?
      • nedbat
        anannie: I won't try to convince you to use vim if you won't try to convince me not to! :)
      • anannie
        I'm just trying to understand why people do it
      • because so many people do and it all seems quite opaque and quite hard...
      • nedbat
        anannie: I also like that vim lets me use more of my screen for code. IDEs have toolbars and panes, etc cluttering things up.
      • anannie
        well someone could make contextual menus or something that expand and edit themselves based upon how frequently you use things
      • nedbat
        anannie: this might be similar to choosing between a terminal window and a finder window.
      • anannie: and how would you open the contextual menu?
      • anannie: people like the speed of not using the mouse.
      • anannie
        mouse gestures
      • nedbat
        anannie: you are asking why people use vim, but you are talking like someone who wants to obsolete vim.
      • anannie
        yeah but the 5 seconds it takes to do that for not-so routine things offsets the 5 minutes taken to learn the command
      • nedbat
        anannie: you only have to learn the command once, but you have to open the menu tens of thousands of times.
      • anannie
        nedbat: Not for most daily tasks. And also I have a terrible memory and not having the GUI backup option seems to be bad
      • it gets in the way of getting my work done
      • nedbat
        anannie: it sounds like you will be very happy with a GUI ide.
      • anannie: is someone saying you have to use vim?
      • anannie
        Yeah
      • Someone was trying to convince me of that
      • nedbat
        anannie: they might be wrong. Did they have a reason?
      • anannie
        I don't know they're just pushing me into it
      • nedbat
        anannie: don't let them! :)
      • anannie
        What if I miss out on something if I don't learn this stuff?
      • nedbat
        anannie: you can drive yourself nuts thinking like that.
      • anannie: i'm glad to know vim, and am wondering if I'm missing something by not using Sublime, but there are too few hours in the day, and I have to focus on getting the code to work, as you said.
      • nedbat pushes his app to heroku....
      • anannie
        It has been terrifying to try to learn how to code, because I can't seem to figure it out and I don't know how to do the next steps ands on
      • * and so on
      • nedbat
        anannie: there was a tweet a while back: "If you like feeling alternately like a genius and an idiot, programming is for you!"
      • anannie: it is very hard to know what to chase down.
      • anannie
        I seem to have a mental block associated with it now
      • nedbat
        anannie: with programming?
      • anannie
        Yeah
      • nedbat
        anannie: keep at it, don't get discouraged
      • get used to the feeling of not knowing enough
      • anannie
        Yeah well it's weird to be around these guys who have been doing it since they were 3 or something.
      • nedbat
        anannie: i'll tell you a secret: those guys also feel like they don't know enough
      • anannie
        And they look at my code ( https://www.dropbox.com/s/igh4z1az0f4emr2/gameo... ) and just tsk tsk away because I'm not following something and it's wrong or weird and they reduce it to a bunch of symbols and I go like WHAT
      • [o__o]
        Pyladies logo covers home link with 1024 browser resolution: https://github.com/pyladies/pyladies/issues/4
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      • nedbat
        anannie: well, it is Ruby... :)
      • anannie
        nedbat: Right, but I don't understand how they managed to get all those weird tricks
      • nedbat
        anannie: experience and obsession :)
      • anannie
        Is there anything fundamentally wrong with my code though (that makes them go tsk tsk?)
      • nedbat
        anannie: I don't read Ruby
      • anannie: this is pyladies after all, not rbladies :)
      • though R-Bladies sounds pretty badass....
      • anannie
        yup it does :)
      • pdurbin
        anannie: I love vim but you shouldn't be forced to use it :)
      • nedbat
        people should be forced not to force people to use vim
      • pdurbin
        heh. exactly
      • in my new job I'm using an IDE, though, and it's kinda nice
      • nedbat
        pdurbin: die infidel!
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